Episode 23: Telling It Like It Is

In this episode of the Watchung Booksellers Podcast, audiobook narrators Stephanie Willing, Sura Siu, and Khristine Hvam discuss the craft of storytelling for audiobooks.

Stephanie Willing is a local author whose contemporary fantasy middle-grade debut West of the Sea was a Junior Guild Library selection. She’s an award-winning audiobook narrator and voice actor who has narrated for many other kidlit authors such as A. S. King, Sara Pennypacker, and R.L. Stine, as well as across genres for authors such as Jeffrey Deaver, Hank Philippi Ryan, Kim Hooper, and F. Paul Wilson. She has her MFA in Writing for Young People from Lesley University. Stephanie is a bisexual cisgendered woman who lives in Bloomfield, NJ, with her family. 

Khristine Hvam is an Emmy award winning voice over performer and a Multi award-winning audiobook narrator, producer/director and creator. Additionally, she is an audiobook coach and mentor and the co-Founder of Curated Audio LLC. Khristine’s performances can be found in TV and Radio commercials, video games, various animated series, and most notably in over 450 audio book titles. 

Sura Siu is a multi-nominated, award-winning narrator and voiceover talent committed to amplifying diverse and marginalized stories. She has voiced works for renowned authors like Kazuo Ishiguro, Sarah J. Maas, and Christina Soontornvat, collaborating with leading publishers such as Penguin Random House and Harper Collins. Passionate about women’s rights, health, and education, Sura’s voice carries a relatable, youthful trust. Her work extends to video games and animation, partnering with companies like Kuro Games, YoStar, Tencent, and Hi Rez Studios, as well as Disney, Netflix, and Cartoon Network.

Audiobooks:
Libro.fm
The Remarkable Journey of Coyote Sunrise
The Last Mapmaker
Ways the World Could End
Spin: The Rumplestiltskin Musical

Books:
A full list of the books and authors mentioned in this episode is available here.

Register for Upcoming Events.

The Watchung Booksellers Podcast is produced by Kathryn Counsell and Marni Jessup and is recorded at Silver Stream Studio in Montclair, NJ.

The show is edited by Kathryn Counsell and Bree Testa. Special thanks to Timmy Kellenyi and Derek Mattheiss.

Original music is composed and performed by Violet Mujica.

Art & design and social media by Evelyn Moulton. Research and show notes by Caroline Shurtleff.

Thanks to all the staff at Watchung Booksellers and The Kids’ Room!

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Transcript

Marni: Hi, welcome back to the Watchung Booksellers podcast, where we bring you conversations from our bookstore's rich community of book professionals who talk about a different aspect of the book world. And if you're new to our podcast, thanks for joining us. I'm Marni and I'm here with my co producer Kathryn.

Marni: Hey Kathryn, how are you? I'm 

Kathryn: good. How you doing Marni? 

Marni: Great. What are you reading? 

Kathryn: I am getting ready to make a little road trip this weekend. So I am busting out the audiobooks. I'm very excited that there's a new Elizabeth Strout and I love her and so I'm gonna read Tell Me Everything. by Elizabeth Straub.

Kathryn: How about you? 

Marni: I just got my copy of Bel Canto by Anne Patchett. It came out in 2001 and it is our next pick for our New York Times Best 100 Books of the 21st Century. We just launched this new book club at the store and our next meeting is on Monday, October 28th. And if you'd like to join us, you can register on our website, and it starts at 7pm.

Marni: We'd love to have you. That's awesome. 

Kathryn: Two down, 98 to go. Yeah, exactly. We'll get there. We'll get there. So, today, our show features audiobook narrators. You may not know this about us, but we actually love audiobooks. The store, the general consensus is that audiobooks can really complement reading in print and we have a great partnership with Libro FM.

Kathryn: They have a program where you can get any audiobook and you pay a monthly fee and they kick back some of that money to indie booksellers and you can choose which bookstore that you want to support and hopefully you'll support Watchung Booksellers. But it's a great way to keep reading when you can't always sit down with a book and 

Marni: we love it.

Marni: Yeah, so today we have three audiobook narrators who are going to talk about their work. Stephanie Willing is a local author whose contemporary fantasy middle grade debut, West of the Sea, from Penguin Viking Children's, was a Junior Guild Library Selection. She's an award winning audiobook narrator and voice actor who has narrated for many other kidlit authors such as A.

Marni: S. King, Sarah Pennypacker, R. L. Stine. As well as across genres for authors such as Jeffrey Deaver, Hank Phillippe Ryan, Kim Hooper, and F. Paul Wilson. She has her MFA in writing for young people from Lesley University. Stephanie is a bisexual, cisgender woman who lives in Bloomfield, New Jersey with her family.

Kathryn: With her today is Christine Bam. She is an Emmy award winning voice over performer and a multi award winning audiobook narrator, producer, director, and creator. Additionally, she is an audiobook coach and mentor and the co founder of Curated Audio LLC. Christine's performances can be found in TV and radio commercials, video games, various animated series, and most notably in over 450 audiobook titles.

Kathryn: She is also a professor in the Broadcasting Department at Montclair State University. 

Marni: Sura Su is a multi nominated, award winning narrator and voiceover talent committed to amplifying diverse and marginalized stories. She has voiced work for renowned authors like Kazuo Ishiguro and Sarah J. Maas. Sura Su.

Marni: and collaborated with leading publishers such as Penguin Random House and HarperCollins. Passionate about women's rights, health and education, Sura's Voice, carries a relatable, youthful trust. Her work extends to video games and animation, partnering with companies like Kuro Games, YoStar, Tencent, and Hi Rez Studios, as well as Disney, Netflix, and Cartoon Network.

Marni: Enjoy the conversation, and we'll be back after to fill you in on what's coming up in the store.

Sura: Hi, I'm Stephanie Willing. I am a voice actor, audiobook narrator, and middle grade author. And I'm here with Sura. Hi, I'm Sura Su. I am an audiobook narrator 

Stephanie: and voice actor. 

Khristine: I am Christine Pham. I am an audiobook narrator, producer, director, and writer. And coach. 

Sura: And professor. 

Khristine: And mom. And mom. We're all moms.

Khristine: We generally learn a lot of things. 

Sura: It's exciting to be here, all of us. 

Khristine: It is really exciting to be here. I love to get together and talk audiobooks. 

Sura: Absolutely. So, I'm especially excited that, like, we're being hosted by a bookstore because audiobooks are not always considered reading. And I know we all feel very differently about that.

Sura: I always think about, like, the kids I know who are dyslexic and who listen to the books as they're reading along with the book, and this is how they're able to take in information. This is how a lot of kids learn to read. So I'm grateful to Watchung Booksellers for, like, really honoring audiobooks as part of the literary tradition, as part of reading and, you know, books.

Khristine: I think it goes without saying that storytelling is the oldest form of community and communication. Absolutely. So, the written story didn't come until much, much later in history. I think however you're consuming your stories is a personal choice. If you like to be told a story, if you like to read a story, if you like to watch a story, I think it's a personal choice.

Khristine: But to completely ignore the fact that audiobooks are part of the literary world, I think is an unfair assessment. I personally, also, like to read a book. I love to have a physical book in my hand and turn the pages. Ah, same. But As a narrator, I have a very different experience with books than a reader does.

Khristine: What's happening in your mind kind of stays in your mind, but as an audiobook narrator, I get to vocalize it, and change it, and play with it, and taste it, almost. So, I think it's a preference. And I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that you prefer to read, but to discount it and say it doesn't count, I think is a little unfair.

Stephanie: Yeah. I mean, growing up, I, you know, my parents did not read to me a lot because they were immigrants. They weren't very good with their English. And I used to listen to records that turn the page at this chime. Bring! Yeah. And I would listen to all these like, Disney books and you know, I would lose myself in these books because these worlds were just so amazing and I've always loved books growing up I loved reading I you know get my children involved in it and we tell them stories before bedtime Sometimes we make up our own stories, right?

Stephanie: So as you were saying Christine like storytelling is so ingrained in just human history It's just how we expressed ourselves how we carried on traditions It's so interesting, 

Khristine: my parents didn't read to me either, and I didn't grow up a reader. Which is strange that I now make my living reading books.

Khristine: But I didn't really start reading for pleasure until I was in my 20s. And, much to the embarrassment of all of my teachers growing up, who thought I was reading all the books they were assigning, I was not. I totally, I totally made up all of my answers. But I didn't really, How exciting and fun reading can be until I was much older and then the universe played a silly little trick on me that was like, Oh, you didn't like reading for the first 20 years.

Khristine: We're going to give you 20 years of nonstop reading. 

Sura: Yeah. I was a huge reader. Like, I was the kind of reader that got in trouble for reading, where my parents would catch me in the bathroom reading instead of brushing my teeth, the teachers would catch me reading instead of, you know, whatever I was supposed to be doing.

Sura: That's adorable. I got in trouble for reading. One of the things I love about being a writer and a narrator is that we get to experience the book at least three times. And, um, one of my writing professors, A. J. Verdell, always recommended read a book twice to learn how they're doing what they're doing.

Sura: Like, if you're trying to write, read the book, just experience it, and then read it again and figure out what they're doing. 

Khristine: Yeah, all the nuances that you missed. All the 

Sura: nuances, what the writer is like, how they're actually crafting it. And that's just built into our job, where we read it to prep it. And if we're lucky, you get to do that more than one time.

Sura: But a lot of times, like our schedules are so full. You just read it the one time and then you are bringing it to life. And that's when you see, Oh. Oh, they laid, like, here's how she hinted at this. Here's how this character was actually saying it from the very, like, the thesis statement was right here, and the, oh my goodness, and you get chills by the craft that is in the writing.

Khristine: I don't actually think people understand what you're talking about when you say, Prepping. Prepping. You're right. So why don't you guys talk about your prep process before you read a book because I think the audiobook listener gets to sort of enjoy the performance but they really don't understand what's behind that performance and how characters are built and where that information comes from.

Khristine: So what's your process? 

Sura: I wish it were a better one. I am looking forward to the time in my life when my kids are a little bit older, I have a little bit more time, and I can have a more perhaps like artistically driven preparation process. Right now, the process is a I read the book. I read it from, you know, beginning to end.

Sura: I track which characters are described as having an accent. Do I need to go prep that accent? You know, hopefully I knew about this accent before I got the book. And are there words I don't know how to pronounce? I need to figure that out. If I'm working with another narrator and we are narrating it together, we need to agree on like, How these characters are going to present, like, especially in romance where you have often a chapter from the female point of view or the male point of view, if this is a hetero or cisgendered romance, we're playing both parts.

Sura: And so I want to match my co narrator's energy, knowing that I'm never going to sound like him. He's not going to sound like me. But we want to be in the same world that we're creating. So there's collaboration that's going on behind the scenes. 

Stephanie: Do you do it the same way, Sarah? I do it similarly, except I mark up my PDF so much I would go in and highlight I certainly hope so.

Stephanie: Yeah, me too. Totally. I have a pretty look. So I go in and, you know, every character has a different color that I highlight when they're speaking. I take note of the author's kind of like tidbits in the book of this character is shy. And they might not say that, you know, so and so is shy, but just the mannerisms in the book.

Stephanie: And I would just highlight them, like, and then I would make a note on the side that, well, Jane is portrayed as very shy. She's a little bit more introverted. And sometimes it's just like little breadcrumbs. Throughout the book of this character and then if it's a there's character development that's going through if it's like a major character I would point that to where this is where the growth happens and I would know you know How to change maybe her stance on something.

Stephanie: Maybe she was shy and But something happened in the book and suddenly she has this newfound bravery. And maybe this is where I would go in and try to portray that differently 

Khristine: within the storytelling. You know, we talked about is listening to a book the same as reading a book? And I think that's true.

Khristine: What the two of you are describing, if you are not able to grasp those concepts, if you are interested in a book that is maybe a little elevated for you, a really good audiobook narrator who has done their prep can help connect those ideas for you, can read a sentence out loud for you in a way that maybe you wouldn't have understood it had you just had the text.

Khristine: But the way they choose to perform those moments, Helps you understand the story in a way that maybe you wouldn't have understood it. They also might take it in a direction that you wouldn't have taken it in. However, you're getting such a nuanced performance. You're able to understand the book on a different level.

Khristine: I know when I was a kid and you would study Shakespeare, having someone who really truly understands the words that are being said and has done their preparation allows you to understand Shakespeare in such another way where you're like, oh, this is funny. Oh, this is scary. And I think a good narrator who does their prep.

Khristine: That's the purpose of prep, right? Is to help the listener really truly understand the story, to understand the nuances, and the drive behind the author's vision. 

Sura: I think there's also this, like, side perk to that where, let's say there's a book you love. Like, I read Laini Taylor's Strange the Dreamer, and I was like, oh my gosh, what an ama I directed 

that.

Sura: No! 

Khristine: Oh 

Sura: my gosh, okay. 

Khristine: Because I did the first three in this, I did three other Laini Taylor books. 

Sura: I, she's one of my, like I listened to them. We all have goal authors. She's one of my goal authors. Ah, she's amazing. 

Khristine: She's incredible. But 

Sura: like also as a writer. I love the way she writes. I love her as a reader, as a writer, everything.

Sura: So I read that. Loved the book so much. And then I got the audiobook. And I didn't remember the book that clearly. And so I got to re experience this story that I already knew I loved. 

Khristine: Yeah. 

Sura: And that I vaguely remembered. I'm like, Oh, something really exciting happens in this scene. And then I got to watch it in my head like a movie!

Sura: And Steve West brings it to life in the most beautiful way. And so there's this extra thing where, like, if you love a book, and a great narrator has narrated it, you get to experience it all over again. Oh, yeah. Which is incredible. 

Khristine: I often call it the movie in your mind. If you are not watching the movie in your mind while you're narrating it, the listener isn't seeing it.

Khristine: And your job is to create that movie in their mind. And it's hard. I don't think it's an easy task. 

Sura: And there are different ways to do it. Like, there's people like myself, like let me own this, who really, I like to treat audiobooks, a lot of the books that I get anyway, almost like audio dramas. Like, I am really trying to act every character in the book.

Sura: while setting the scene, like not melodramatically, but like as authentically as possible. I want to do that. And we're limited by, we're seated, we're talking, it's never going to be like acting for the camera. But then there are people who are more like a step back, you know? Subdued, yeah. More subdued. And listeners have preferences.

Sura: I don't think one's better than the other. It's just like, what serves the story? And I think that's where casting comes in. Like, casting the right narrator for the right story. You know? Wholeheartedly agree. So, what kinds of audiobooks do you tend to narrate? Speaking of casting, you know? 

Stephanie: I tend to narrate a lot of middle grade books.

Stephanie: And that's really where my heart is, is children's books and middle grade books. And I think one of the reasons I love it so much is because A lot of the books that are out now are by Asian American authors. And there are characters in these books that look, I'm gonna cry just like talking about it, that look like me.

Stephanie: And Representation matters so much to me. And while I did not write these books, I am not a writer myself, but just being a part of the world that the authors create, with characters that look like me, look like my children, that matters so much to me. And that's why it's, like, my favorite genre. It's, like, children's, middle grade, young adult.

Stephanie: It's just, it's everything to me. That's where I feel that, like, It's silly, but sometimes I feel like, you know, I'm making a difference because maybe someone can't, you know, read this book. They're on the train, they're commuting, whatever. Children with dyslexia. I've worked with Learning Ally and they've done wonderful work for children with learning disabilities to read along and I feel like, you know, I'm doing my part in, in like, sharing these worlds with these children.

Stephanie: And I 

Khristine: can imagine that, I don't know if people listening really understand this, but casting has changed over the last decade. And now there's more authentic casting, which I think is incredible. An incredibly important part of the change in our industry. To your point, Sura, I bet those authors and those young people that are listening to those books that are inspired by that Thai heritage are really proud that someone like you is voicing them.

Khristine: And it's not easy. Someone like me with just European ancestral background, typical American girl kind of background, pretending, acting as if. You understand the cultural nuance behind it, and I bet there is such a sense of pride from authors and listeners that you're able to bring to those stories. So, Let's talk about that for a second, the change in casting and how it's affected our careers and our journeys.

Khristine: Has it affected you at all, Stephanie? 

Sura: I mean, I feel like I got started narrating for real for real. Like my first books were in 2017 and then it was kind of a gap. So I came in in 2019. So authentic casting has been part of my experience. The entire time. except for my very first book. So I will, I'll own that as well, that my very first book, I was cast in a young adult fantasy with a biracial female character raised by her white father.

Sura: So like, Stephanie at that time was like, Oh, it's, it's okay. Like she's also And it's also a fantasy world where the power dynamics are totally different. I would never take that book now. 

Like, 

Sura: I was not educated to the point of, like, how that was not appropriate. And how that was an opportunity that should have gone to someone with a lived experience that I did not have.

Sura: So, like, I'm proud of my first book. I came out with Audible and I loved the book. But I would never do that now, you know? As a woman who is, you know, Bisexual. I'm always really excited though when I get like a sapphic romance or a character who is bisexual. I don't know how much that has honestly gone into anyone's thought in casting me or if I just got lucky.

Sura: I try to put it out there that I would like more sapphic material and so that is a joy when it comes my way but I don't get a ton of it. I 

Stephanie: think similarly to Stephanie, I started around 2019 as well and I think maybe that was when there was big changes in that and I was able to You know, take advantage of these wonderful, you know, outreach programs that we're looking for more diverse narrators.

Stephanie: So I feel that I've, I've been really lucky. In that instance that, you know, there are more books that are written by Asian American authors or just Asian authors in general, and I've been cast in so many of them. 

Sura: Are you comfortable talking about the double edged sword of that, which is getting typecast?

Stephanie: Yeah, that is true. There is a double edged sword because It doesn't matter what I look like. And I think for stories that are just, maybe, that has no nuance in cultural background or anything like that, then, sure, I should be able to narrate anything. As long as you can assume that character and get into that character's role.

Stephanie: I haven't had so much trouble. of being like, you know, pigeonholed in just like Asian stories, Asian fantasies. So I haven't run into that issue. I am thankful for the producers and the publishing houses that I work with that they have been giving me opportunities, you know, across the board. I feel 

Khristine: like 

Stephanie: the grandma of the group.

Khristine: I've been doing this audiobook since 2008. I'm definitely the grandma of the group. 

Sura: No, no, you're the, grandma's a beautiful word, but I feel like the wise woman of the group. I'll take 

Khristine: it. I like all of it. 

Sura: We're just close enough to your age that I'm like, that doesn't feel like the right word. Just the wise 

Khristine: woman 

Sura: in the 

Khristine: room.

Khristine: I don't know that I experienced any, how do I put this, improper casting. There have been a few snafus where I think producers didn't really look and cast me in a first person. Male POV, where you have to come back and be like, Well, Can I do it? Yeah. Should I do it? But yeah, I've never had, uh, I've never had to turn down a book because of casting outside of cultural nuance.

Khristine: I feel like the audiobook industry was certainly ahead of the game in that. I think that was always a part of casting was an attempt at authentic casting. I don't know that at the time that I started the talent pool was as deep. And so as that talent pool grew and we can get into why it grew and how it grew and that's a huge other conversation entirely.

Khristine: You know, the casting pool was easier to choose from, and you could find more authentic casting. You could find African American actors, Black actors, Asian actors, cisgendered actors, bisexual actors, etc, etc. And it was, you know, from a producer's standpoint, was wonderful because you want to give voice to that.

Khristine: You want to cast that way. But I don't think in the beginning I ever had casting. I personally came up against anything where I thought, Ooh, I don't think I should be doing this. Now, the majority of the things that I narrated when I came up was a lot of, you know, the vampire movement was big. Back in those 2010s, like, it was all vampires.

Khristine: All the time. They're coming back. The vampires are on the rise right now. Well, then, you know, I have, I have, I've filled that. That quoting's done. I'm onto something else. But I, there was a lot of vampire stuff. And so it took me a while to figure out I had 90 characters per book. And so it's really hard to cast authentically.

Khristine: And so when we talk about authentic casting, we're talking about the main point of view of the book. Like that main character. Because there are dozens, in my case, dozens and dozens of characters from all over the world, from every Race, gender, and species you could possibly think of. So being a, what I found really challenging, interesting, and something I really loved to do was authentically portraying people who were exactly not me.

Khristine: So I came up with this phrase, which was, I play the who and not the voice. So I don't find a stereotypical voice. I look at the character and who they are. Where did they grow up? How old are they? What are their past experiences? And the voice is a byproduct of who they are, right? So it doesn't become this stereotypical sound, but it's more about the writer's intention and who they wrote.

Khristine: And so, I ask my actors to do what I do, which is play the Who. 

Because 

Khristine: I will have 70, 80 characters that live all over the world, and it's impossible to authentically do anything unless you know who they are. 

Sura: I mean, that's an excellent point, that unless it is a multi cast ensemble production, it is a one person show, a one woman show.

Sura: Like, you are playing all the characters. So thank you for clarifying that. That is very tricky. For folks who don't know how audio books are made, what the process is. Do you mind taking that Christine? Cause you do produce and we don't. 

Khristine: Oh boy. How is an audio book made? So it very much depends on where the book is coming from.

Khristine: Is it traditionally published? Is it coming from an audio book publisher? Is it coming from an independent author? So we could get into like the real nitty gritty about audio books. rights holders and who has the rights and how that works, but we're not gonna we're gonna skip over all of that and just talk about the process of how it goes from script to mp3.

Khristine: Perfect. So as a producer a script comes my way from lots of different folks, but a script comes my way and I take a look at it. And I am determining the tone and the voice of this piece. Is this piece in a particular genre? Is it YA, young adult? Is it middle grade? Is it non fiction? Is it contemporary fiction?

Khristine: Is it thriller? Mystery? The list goes on. So, I'm determining the genre and therefore the tone. Then I want to know who the voice is. Is this first person narration from male female points of view? Or is this, you know, From a different point of view is this third person is this second person. I have narrated second person.

Khristine: It is really difficult, but 

Sura: I love reading it. I have never tried to narrate it. It's really hard. 

Khristine: That's another just . So I'm determining who the voice is. Again, I need the who and then I start the casting process. So maybe I've got a middle grade book and my main character is a young boy and he is from Texas.

Khristine: So now the casting begins. I need to find a voice actor, male, who might have ties to Texas because he's gonna understand those accents in a way that maybe somebody from Maine is not. So I'm gonna start looking at casting. I'm gonna come up with a list of names. Maybe I send out five to six auditions to people that I think would be great in that role.

Khristine: I give them a small section of the book, maybe a page and a half to two pages, that incorporates both narration. Dialogue from both the main character's point of view and another character, usually the opposite gender. So I can hear how they handle both their dialogue and the dialogue of others. I give them a certain amount of time, they come back with those auditions, and then those auditions actually go either to the publisher or to the author.

Khristine: A lot of times now it just goes to the author, and the author really chooses from the six, five or six that I send them. That's great, that's great. I 

Sura: really like that. I love that. 

Khristine: And then we start the process. So it's all about scheduling and when needs to get what, but let's say the two of you are cast, you are going to do your prep.

Sura: It's a dual POV! It's a dual POV! Yay! 

Khristine: You're going to do your prep, you're going to tell me when your raw audio is going to come in, you let me know that your raw audio is ready. 

Sura: Raw, 

Khristine: raw meaning we didn't process it. Raw meaning you did not process it, you have done a simple recording. Again, that's all on another podcast.

Khristine: And then it goes off to post production. Post production takes out all the, uh, The 

Sura: ASMR of our mouths. The potting 

Khristine: of 

Sura: the peas, the 

Khristine: sticking of the mouths, all rumbles of the tummies. And they check for misreads, right? And then, as a narrator, you fix all the mistakes that you made in your misreads or mispronunciations.

Khristine: That goes back to Post. Post fills that all in. They master it, gets sent back to me, and I send it off to the rights holder. And that rights holder can distribute that book in any way they want. So, that is the bare bones part. Just point by point how an audiobook gets made. That was so great. Thank you, Christine.

Khristine: I don't know if that was so great. It's a lot. It's very simple. It's a very simple process. Um, and it's a repeatable process. The only thing that really changes from book to book is the casting. Everything else is pretty much check this off my list. 

Sura: It's very humbling to get those corrections back and go, Oh wait, I've said it that way my whole life.

Sura: What do you mean? Yes. That that's not 

Khristine: Is it mischievous? It's mischievous. Mischievous. Oh my god. Is it ethereal or ethereal? Oh my god. Okay, I'm going to ask the two of you ladies. That little colored stick that you color with on paper with your kids, what are they called? Crayons. Crayons. How many people listening say crayons?

Khristine: I bet a lot of people say crayons. My daughter says 

Stephanie: crayons. Oh really? I 

Khristine: fight with my children about crayons. Me too. Like it's crayons. It's crayon. 

Stephanie: Crayon. It is not crayons. 

Khristine: I have to say, we should talk about two things, getting production. So what does that mean in the audiobook world? That means post production came back and they said, hey, you know, You messed up.

Khristine: Yeah, fix it. 200 times. 

Sura: Here's 

Khristine: a 

Sura: list of the 200 times that you made a mistake. This is how this city is actually pronounced. Here's how this word is actually said by Americans. I don't know where you got yours, but it's not here. 

Khristine: I jokingly say I'm the queen of pickups. I make tons of mistakes. I've been doing this a long time and I still never have less than 100 pickups.

Khristine: Ever. 

Sura: I am very accurate. It's like one of my superpowers. However, I was just told by a producer who I love that my misreads, my, like when I say something wrong, are so unique and hilarious that he, well he's like, he jokingly said like, we put it on the board and we tell people to go listen to it, but like he takes it to other producers and be like, did you hear her say, did you hear Curricature.

Sura: I'm like, did you do, you did not! I'm sorry, I didn't know! Listen, if you get hired because 

Khristine: someone wants to hear how weird your misreads are, that's a win. It's all 

Stephanie: the time. That's a win. I mean, have them send you that and have a bloopers reel of just you listening to like, all the misreads. Curricatures.

Stephanie: Curricatures. 

Sura: Not everybody says gazebo. Thank you. 

Stephanie: Okay. I have not been more, like, conscious of things I say and how I say it until I started narrating audiobooks. So sometimes I'm like, wait a minute, is that how you say it? Is it recluse or recluse? What is it? And I'm like, oh, I've got to go look that up now.

Khristine: And then when is it appropriate to use different pronunciations? Which one? Data? Like, torment and torment. 

Sura: Like, you know, words that change if it's a verb or a noun, but you didn't know that until you had to say it. 

Khristine: Yeah. So there's a, so it's interesting that we're talking about pronunciations. Because this is what we do right now.

Khristine: But, again, prep is really important. Because I do a book that is set in the mountain range of Tennessee, right? What is that mountain range called? Oh, Appalachia. And what do you think it's called, Sarah? 

Stephanie: Appalachia. 

Khristine: Exactly. So there's two different ways to say it. Here in the Dirty Jers, we say the Appalachian Mountains.

Khristine: But when you're from Tennessee, you say the Appalachian Mountains. I'm from Texas, 

Sura: so. 

Khristine: So I remember getting, um, 

Sura: 50 

Khristine: pickups saying I said the word Appalachia wrong. And I was like, oh no, no, no, no, because I did my prep. And these people say Appalachian. This was first person narration. And again, this is why prep is so important.

Khristine: Yes. You want to be as authentic to that character as you can. And if that character is from that region, they're not gonna say Appalachia. But my editor is from New Jersey, and so he says Appalachia. So in his mind, he didn't even bother, you know, he didn't, I don't want to say he didn't bother to look it up, but he didn't think he needed to.

Khristine: Right. Right? Because we've all been saying mischievous our whole lives. We didn't know it was mischievous. And all the number of things that go with that. So, uh, Yeah, a lot of, you know, authenticity also comes in pronunciation. How does the person from that region say that word? Yeah, 

Stephanie: and I think that also comes to the authentic casting of how a person says this, you know, or pronounces something if they're from different regions.

Stephanie: And it gets even more nuanced if you're talking about places, That are not America, and I'm, you know, talking as we're American, uh, narrators, but like, if they're from Europe, they're gonna say things different. What region of Europe are they, or if they're from Asia, or Africa. Oh, my favorite direction is, 

Khristine: can you do just like a standard European accent?

Stephanie: Sure. 

Sura: Or neutral English? You're like, I'm, where do we find that? 

Stephanie: Or like, can you do an Asian accent on that? That's my favorite. Which, 

Khristine: I think the simple answers. No. No. We need more detail, thank you. We need more than that. Give me a region. Yeah. Have you guys done other voiceover work? 

Sura: Yeah, we're both voice actors.

Sura: What kind of stuff 

Khristine: have you done? 

Stephanie: How's it different? For me, I do video games, and video games are much bigger characters. I think the best way to describe it is when I am doing dialogue for a character and An audiobook. Even though she might be shouting, I am not shouting into this mic like I'm going, Grenade!

Get 

Stephanie: down! Like, if it's a video game, I am going all out and yelling in my booth at the top of my lungs, but like, audiobooks are listened in your ears, usually, in like airpods or headphones, and you don't want to be screaming. So you have to kind of act it out as more of a stage, you know, a stage yell instead of a full on out.

Stephanie: So unless it's like children's and middle grades, usually the characters are more subdued. They're more real life characters. So we're not doing any goofy voices unless it's, you know, called for, for like a children's book. The acting is more grounded, I would say. 

Sura: I do a lot of corporate narration. I've done a A lot of, a lot of different kinds.

Sura: I've done commercial voiceover. I've done, I've done a couple of video games. I've definitely patterned. I feel like audio books are, well, first of all, it takes so much effort. It is hours and hours and hours in a booth. You have to sustain your performance. You have to match your performance from the day before and just keep that going.

Sura: You can spend hours and hours doing video games, too, though. So, that's not necessarily in Apples to Oranges, but like with corporate narration, I am completely, I'm not trying to play another character, I'm playing me. I'm going to talk to you about your business, and we're going to talk about how to make data silos non existent anymore.

Sura: You know, like, you'll be able to access this so easily if you just follow these simple steps. Um, and so I'm being me, and I'm taking information that's very dry, and giving it character, but the character is me. You know? And with an audiobook, I think, oh see here's the name right, I'm not gonna remember her, the actress in Bridgerton, Nicola, Nicola, the actress in Bridgerton season three, said the script is the Bible and I thought that was so well put.

Sura: The book is the Bible. What the author wrote is my Bible. So I'm going to try to bring Like, my loyalty is not even to the characters in the book, my loyalty is to the author and what that, and the story that author is trying to tell, always. So for me, there's also, like, I appreciate the people who hire me for voiceover.

Sura: Like, we are creatives in a business. Not that writing books is not a business, it very much is, but I think writing and performing audiobooks always comes from love of story. We love it. It's too hard to do it if you don't love it. 

Khristine: So I've been blessed in the voiceover world that I've gotten to do all of it.

Khristine: So I've gotten to do animation, video games, commercials, on hold messaging, audiobooks. I'm sure I'm forgetting. Narration for I think the differences between them are audio books are never a cold read. Animation, video game, it's a cold read, which means I'm not given the words I'm going to say beforehand.

Khristine: I walk into an animation job, or I walk into a video game job, and that is the first time I'm seeing those lines. 

Stephanie: Yeah. 

Khristine: And I'm coming up with all of the characterizations with the help of a director who is saying, Hey, this character is X, Y, Z. This is what's happening in the scene. You're an actor. Go. With audiobooks, I am the director.

Khristine: I am the performer. I am everybody all in one. And so the approach is very different. That's the difference, right? One is sort of a cold read where I've got outside help. One is a very solitary, read where I am the whole process. But where I find similarity is when you are telling a story, you always need to know four things.

Khristine: Who am I? Where am I? How am I feeling? And what am I doing? And in all the genres of voiceover, in all of storytelling, those four things always need to have an answer. And so when I am approaching anything that I do in voiceover, I have to answer those four questions first. I love that. That makes a lot of sense.

Khristine: Yeah, I'm glad because that's what I teach. I would hope that it made sense. Let's just plug Montclair State University real quick. I do teach voiceover at Montclair State University and they have to know those four storytelling components. 

Sura: So I have like a unique, I think it's a unique experience, tell me if it's not a unique experience, of recording my own book.

Sura: Which is really interesting compared to recording somebody else's book. And I thought, I was completely mistaken, I thought going into the studio to record my own book was gonna be like, so hard. Uh, to the point that I, they asked me if I wanted a director, I was like, no. I don't want a director. I don't want them to tell me about my own book.

Sura: And then I worked with a director on a different middle grade book and they were just like so good at being like, uh, you rushed that last line. Let's go back and really land it. And I was like, oh, I don't want to rush my own book. So then I was like, can I get a director, please? And so I got a director. So my book is West of the Sea.

Sura: It's published by Viking Children's for pre K. Middle grade readers, ages 8 through 12. And it was produced by Penguin Random House for the Listening Library. So I was in the studio. A lot of, a lot of what we do, we do in our homes, in our booth, by ourselves. But this was in studio with a director and, uh, and an engineer.

Sura: And what I found, was that so much of the work we do in the booth alone, when we're recording someone else's work, is the self direction. It's like trying to keep in our heads what this character's goal is, how much power do they have in this scene, are they, how are they feeling, like how are they interacting, like what are all the dynamics?

Sura: I wrote this one. I know exactly how every character is feeling at every single moment. I know what they're seeing, what they're describing. I know the whole arc in my bones because I rewrote it a million times. So it was actually one of the most fulfilling artistic experiences of my entire life because I was telling my own story in my own words.

Sura: in my own voice. Like, I will start to cry if I think about it too much and I'm so grateful that it happened when it did. I had, you know, been writing this book for so long and it finally, you know, went, went on submission. It was, it was purchased. I had to do more rewrites and it just felt like such a long process but over that time I narrated over a hundred books.

Sura: So by the time it was time to record my book, I knew what I was doing and I could do it to the fullness of my ability and really walk away feeling so proud. It was unbelievable. Can we plug your book again? What's it called? It's called West of the Sea. It's for middle grade readers. It's a speculative fantasy.

Sura: I never learned my elevator pitch, but if you like dinosaurs, Complicated but loving families and road trips and coffee. I think you will like it. Adult readers will like it. The kids like it. I'm going 

Khristine: to the library. 

Sura: My girls loved it. She sent me pictures of them reading it, which made me so happy. 

Khristine: That's really impressive.

Sura: It was really special. Have you ever recorded something that you had ownership of? Yes. 

Khristine: The first two ever audiobook musicals I co created and produced. 

Sura: So, 

Khristine: one is called Spin, the Rumpelstiltskin musical. 

Sura: Oh, I remember! I remember! Oh, the oddies loved you. The oddies loved us. Which is the Oscar awards for audiobooks?

Khristine: The other one is called Puss in Boots, the musical. Also very well received. People loved it. Yeah, we had an incredible cast of Broadway actors, original music, and Sound effects, full cast. I mean, it was the way that you, oh, so incredibly proud. The process of putting those together is what gave me the confidence to say, oh yeah, I could start my own audiobook production company.

Khristine: If I can do this, 

Sura: I 

Khristine: can absolutely do that. 

Sura: That's awesome. That's 

Khristine: so awesome. 

Sura: So I know that Watchung Booksellers likes to wrap up with, What are you reading right now? As narrators, we tend to read what we're recording. So that can mean a lot of different things. What are you reading right now? What are you recording right now?

Sura: What is exciting you right now? 

Stephanie: For me, I've been listening to Atomic Habits by James Clear. And, It's my second time and I'm listening. I read it the first time and this time I'm listening to it. And I believe that he narrated his own book too. Listening to it and reading it, like you said before, is a whole different perspective.

Stephanie: It's a whole different experience. And I mean this, this is like non fiction. But still, I'm like getting things that I didn't pick up when I read it the first time. I need 

Sura: to revisit it. I've never listened to it, so maybe I should. Highly recommend. It's so hopeful. 

Khristine: So good. I think as creatives, we forget that we are business owners.

Khristine: We forget that we are running our own businesses. And so I've been reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad. Oh, that's a good one. To try to figure out what on earth I'm supposed to do with my money. Unless, let's not get crazy, there's not a lot to do with. But I would like to know with what little I have, how to make it grow.

Khristine: Because I'm a creative, and no, no, I'm sure a lot of people tried to teach me, I wasn't listening. So, that's what I'm reading. 

Sura: Well, I'm writing my next middle grade book. It was literally, like, not as an idiom, it was due yesterday. It's not done. I'm working on it so hard. But it's a middle grade horror book, so I've been trying to read more horror.

Sura: Horror. And I am a baby about horror so I'm so nervous when I read them. But I just read Black Sheep by Rachel Harrison which I really enjoyed so much. There is a line in there. No, I don't want to say anything. I don't want to spoil anything. It's great. She writes with so much voice and snark and it's so funny but it's also very gruesome and gross and wonderful.

Sura: And then the middle grade book, the middle grade horror I read that I will not stop recommending to anybody who will listen to me is This Appearing House. It is unbelievable. Have you read it? My daughter just started it. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, that's about a, like, 12 year old cancer survivor who is haunted by, you know, is the tumor going to come back?

Sura: Aww. And then she starts, like, She's seeing a house in a cul de sac and she's like, where did that come from? Is this a hallucination? And so she goes inside of it to prove that it's not her tumor coming back, but what if it is? What if it's not? And so you cannot tell. It is a haunted house story, but it is also about having a terminal disease, being in remission, and always wondering what happens next.

Sura: It is a haunted house. Okay, so, 

Khristine: let's end on this one. A book you narrated that you think people should go listen to. Ooh. 

Sura: Okay, the one that people love, let me put it that way. The one that people listen to and really, really love is Kim Hooper's Ways the World Could End. And that is a co narration with Pete Cross.

Sura: I love that book. So you can, you hear me, I sound young. I was playing a 16 year old character. Pete Cross plays her father who is on the spectrum and they have survived a tragedy. And so that's the, the premise. People loved the book. People loved the audiobook. Ways the World Could End by Kim Hooper. 

Stephanie: I guess for me it would be The Last Mapmaker by Christina Stornbart.

Stephanie: And it's a middle grade fantasy with Thai elements. It's about this girl that goes on a journey to find out who she is, but as well as like, save the world that she's living in. That, you know, they're going to war and, you know, people are, it, it, it touches upon like, colonization and how like, people are expanding, taking over, destroying the ecosystem and it, it, it's so good.

Stephanie: So, so good. 

Khristine: So if I had to choose one, it's my favorite. My favorite of all time, it's called The Remarkable Journey of Coyote Sunrise. I 

Stephanie: love that one. By Dan Meinhardt. 

Khristine: That's right. Okay. It's an incredible book. It is about a father and daughter who experience great loss. and find themselves again and a new family again after the processing of that loss.

Khristine: It's an incredible book. I cried, I listened to it, I am crying all through the last chapter just so that you're aware. I say, you know, listen to it just to hear me cry. 

Stephanie: So I cried reading it. 

Khristine: It's a beautiful book. Sequel's coming up, right? I narrated the sequel. It just came out. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just as good.

Khristine: Dan Gemeinhart is an incredible author. And it too is a middle grade book. However, the themes and the characters are relatable to anybody of any age. 

Sura: Beautiful. Ours have thematic overlap. That's interesting. Father and daughter finding themselves again after tragedy. 

Khristine: Yeah. 

Sura: I'm gonna have to read it. I 

Stephanie: was like, gross sobbing.

Khristine: Yeah. I came out of the booth and I was just like, I, I can't do this anymore. 

Sura: It's over. 

Khristine: I need 

Sura: something happy. Well, thank you so much to the Watchung booksellers and the podcast for having us, for letting us come here and talk to each other. We do all this by ourselves, so getting to talk to each other in person is unbelievable.

Sura: Well, let's 

Khristine: do this again next 

Sura: time with coffee. What a great idea. I am absolutely down for that.

Marni: Thank you, Christine, Sura, and Stephanie for sharing all these insights into the world of audiobooks. Listeners, you can find all the books they talked about in our show notes. 

Kathryn: We've got a lot of events in October, and here are a few of the ones coming up. Tonight, October 30, Nicole Boquette is having an author reception in our Flagship Store to celebrate her new novel, Will Indian Fire.

Kathryn: And after that, at 7 o'clock in the kids room, we have Jason Lipschutz Author of It Starts With One, a comprehensive biography of the band Linkin Park. And then next week, on Tuesday, October 8th, Aaron Robertson is in conversation with Michelle Alexander about his book, The Black Utopians. And on 

Marni: Wednesday, October 9th, Min Sue Kang is here with his novel, The Melancholy of Untold History.

Marni: And Thursday, Emily Weinstein, Editor in Chief of New York Times Magazine. Cooking and food is in conversation with food writer Melissa Clark. 

Kathryn: We've got something for everyone this fall, so please check out all of our events in our newsletter, show notes, or at watchungbooksellers. com. 

Marni: The Watchung Booksellers podcast is produced by Kathryn Council and Marni Jessup, and is recorded at Silver Stream Studio in Montclair, New Jersey.

Marni: The show is edited by Kathryn Council and Bree Testa. Special thanks to Timmy Kalleyni and Derek Matthias. Original music is composed and performed by Violet Mujica. Art and design and social media by Evelyn Moulton. Research and show notes by Caroline Schurtleff. Thank you to the staff at Watchung Booksellers and The Kids Room for all their hard work and love of books.

Kathryn: And thank you for listening. If you enjoyed the show, please like, follow, and share it. You can follow us on social media at Watchung Booksellers, and if you have any questions or ideas, you can reach us at wbpodcast at watchungbooksellers. com. We'll see you next time. Until then, 

Marni: for the love of books, keep reading!