Episode 22: Bookstores Are Magic

In this episode of the Watchung Booksellers Podcast, Margot Sage-EL sits down with author Emma Straub, owner of Books Are Magic in Brooklyn, to talk about writing and running a bookstore.

Emma Straub is the New York Times bestselling author of six books for adults: the novels This Time Tomorrow, All Adults Here, The Vacationers, Modern Lovers, Laura Lamont's Life in Pictures, and the short story collection Other People We Married. She is also the author of two picture books, Gaga Mistake Day, which she co-wrote with her mother, and Very Good Hats. She is a Guggenheim Foundation Fellow and her work has been published in more than 20 languages. Emma and her husband own Books Are Magic, an independent bookstore in Brooklyn, New York,

Margot Sage-EL is the owner emeritus of Watchung Booksellers. She continues to work on author events and bookstore activities. When not at the store, she is busy running around town with her grandkids.

Resources:

WORD Bookstore
Books Are Magic
BookCourt Closing
Greenlight Bookstore
Community Bookstore
The Magnetic Fields
East Side Mags
NAIBA
ABA
Winter Institute
Shelf Awareness

Books:
A full list of the books and authors mentioned in this episode is available here.

Register for Upcoming Events.

The Watchung Booksellers Podcast is produced by Kathryn Counsell and Marni Jessup and is recorded at Silver Stream Studio in Montclair, NJ.

The show is edited by Kathryn Counsell and Bree Testa. Special thanks to Timmy Kellenyi and Derek Mattheiss.

Original music is composed and performed by Violet Mujica.

Art & design and social media by Evelyn Moulton. Research and show notes by Caroline Shurtleff.

Thanks to all the staff at Watchung Booksellers and The Kids’ Room!

If you liked our episode please like, follow, and share!

Stay in touch!
Email: wbpodcast@watchungbooksellers.com
Social: @watchungbooksellers

Sign up for our newsletter to get the latest on our shows, events, and book recommendations!

Transcript

Hi, everybody. Welcome back to the Watchung Booksellers Podcast, where we bring you conversations from our bookstores community of book professionals who talk about different aspects of the book world. If you're new to our podcast, thanks for joining us.

I'm Kathryn, and I'm here with my co producer Marni. Hey, Marni. Hey, Kathryn. And we're just a little bit excited about this week's guests. Um, today, our own Margo Sage Ell sits down with the amazing Emma Straub to talk about writing and owning a bookstore.

But first, let's check in. Marni, what are you reading? Um, I actually just finished Ali Smith's How to Be Both. It's, part of our New York Times 100 Best Books of the 21st Century book club that we just launched. And, uh, yeah, this is the first book we're reading, so I'm excited. What about you? since it is Band Book Week this week, I just pulled Off My Shelf 1984 by George Orwell.

Um, embarrassingly, I have never read it. I'm actually not going to be embarrassed. I am just going to be honest. I've never read it. but I'm very lucky that I'm able to own it because it is my right as a reader. And it's really important We get to read these books whenever we damn well please. And in honor of Band Book Week, we are having some authors and luminaries of the Montclair area stop by the store to talk about their favorite band books. And so keep an eye out on our social media this week, for some of great stuff. Yeah, so speaking of luminaries, we're really excited to welcome Emma Straub, who is a great friend of Watchung Booksellers.

Emma Straub is the New York Times bestselling author of six books for adults. The novels This Time Tomorrow, All Adults Here, The Vacationers, Modern Lovers, Laura Lamont's Life in Pictures, and the short story collection Other People We Married. She's also the author of two picture books, Gaga Mistake Day, which she co wrote with her mother.

and very good hats. She's a Guggenheim Foundation Fellow and her work has been published in more than 20 languages. Emma and her husband own Books Are Magic, an independent bookstore in Brooklyn, New York. And talking with her today is Margo Sage El, who is the owner emeritus of Watchung Booksellers and who continues to help with all kinds of author events and in-store activities when she's not at the store.

She's busy running around town with her grandkids. Enjoy the conversation and we'll be back after to fill you in on what's coming up in the store. 

Hi, Emma. Thank you so much for coming out to the burbs to, to visit us and talk to us today. Hi, Margo. I am so delighted to be here. Thank you for inviting me. You're welcome. I was reminiscing that it was. In 2012 that we met that Christine Onorati from Word in Jersey City and Brooklyn. Well, she didn't have Jersey City that brought us together.

And it was such a delight to meet you and we've kept up over the years. Although as we were just saying, they were the most transitional years for you. Cause it was. before, before bookstore, before. And it was, was that your first book? It was my, it was my first, it was my first novel. And my, I, before that I, the year before that I had published a collection of stories with a small press that Riverhead then bought and re, republished.

Right. So, so now it looks like all of my books are at Riverhead and proceeded in this order, but, but I had had a book. Before that. Um, but yeah, I mean it was wild. It was wild. I know. Publishing that novel. It, I just, I mean what's so funny to me now is that like, I, like you could not have told me that I was not, like, the world's, like, not best novelist, but like, most important writer.

Up and coming novelist. Like, I so, I believed in my own As you should, right? Power so much and then like No one bought that book. Like, nobody bought that book. Wait a minute. First of all, that was still in the days when you went on tour, right? Didn't you have a tour? Oh, sure. Yeah. So that was cool.

No, they sent me on a tour. I mean, I, you know, I went all over. I, I had great events. Yeah. Um, but itRiverhead was invested in you and building you, which is what. Publishers should do. Yes, and I know like I do, you know, I I'd say that nobody bought it, but it's just that My second novel.

Yes, The Vacationers sold So much more like has still sold the most of any of my books that like oh even now So even now it's just like it was such a I I mean what I love is that you have a voice of Like contemporary women and it reflects the lives that we're all in one way or another Dealing with which brings me to my question.

How the heck do you do everything?

You are an accomplished author you are now a bookstore owner you are a mother of how many two three two children and and um A wife, let's not forget that. And, yeah, it's like, Yeah, and, you know, Tell us about how this all, like, And a daughter, and a friend, It's all of those, It's all of those things. And the truth is that I'm never doing like, all of those things well at any one given moment.

That's the truth for sure. Um, and my days are packed Yeah. Start to finish. I mean, my kids wake up at 6 a. m. Screaming. Like, I have two boys. They share a room. They love each other so much. They are 8 and 11. And they wake up screaming and they are screaming until they go to sleep at like 8 o'clock at night.

Like, it's just Yeah, their energy level. Constant noise. I mean, so, so we opened the bookstore in 2017, and in that period, I really was like, I need to devote myself to this. I am gonna, like, sort of pause writing. Like, writing is not gonna be my priority for a minute. But you had, had experience, right?

You had worked for Book Court for many years, which, yeah. I worked for, yeah, so I worked for Book Court, which was Our local bookstore in Cobble Hill in Brooklyn. Um, for a bunch of years, but when I think about it now, it's like I had no responsibilities there. Like, I was a bookseller. I was a bookseller, and I think I was a big A pretty good bookseller.

I'm sure you were like I was extremely friendly. Yep. I remembered people. I met their babies, I knew their dog's names. Like all of those things. Yeah, all those. Yep. I was really good at that. And that is still, and you were relatively well, well read, right? Yeah. Yeah. Right. And then I could recommend a book.

Yeah. But that is, that is still what I'm. Best at, at my bookstore. The only problem is that now I have a lot of other responsibilities. Oh boy. So in 2017, Book Court was closing. Yeah, so Book Court closed. I mean, and what's funny is that people still sometimes say to me like, Oh God, like it was so sad.

what happened to book as as if it, I mean, it was sad. It was sad for us, right? Like it was sad for the neighborhood that it was closing, but, but Mary and Henry who, who ran book court, it was not sad for them. No. They, they, it was a choice. They chose to retire after 35 years and they sold their buildings and like it could actually retire or they, like, it was, it was, it was.

Great for them. It was great for them. And I, and now I understand it more now, certainly, just how hard it is to run a small business, period, a small business in New York City, like a small bookstore. Like it's, it is so, so challenging. On a daily, on a daily basis. Right. So, the fact that they did it for 35 years, like, I will bow at their feet forever.

It's incredible. I mean, and you too, Margot! And they built, they built a real community and a bookstore. And Brooklyn was a little dicey. Yeah, yes. So, give them a lot of kudos. Yeah, for sure. But you've, you, but you and Michael came in at a different time with different skills and, and, yeah, yeah, and you know, you just started running the minute you opened up.

Yeah, I know, and that was really one of the problems. Like, I mean, we had skills. We had a couple of skills. Like, I had people skills, meaning I knew a lot of people. I knew all, I knew all the writers, I knew all the editors, I knew all the publishers, I knew all the publicists. It's like, I knew. Everybody. Yep.

Um, and Mike had been working in book design for Oh, I didn't know that. I don't even know how long, 15 years ish, let's say. Um, so he knew how to make everything look great. Yeah. And he's actually organized. That is a skill. Yeah, so, so we had those skills. That's great. Um, but neither of us had ever run a business before.

Neither of us had ever had employees before. Neither of us had ever, I just operated a space open to the public. You know, like there were so many things that were new to us. Well, I, I think, cause I, I too started, I always say, with all this naivete, like just, but somehow, if you think you can do it, you know, as long as you, you know, give yourself a little latitude for making mistakes and learning to grow, Um, I think you can do that with a bookstore.

Yeah, and I mean, I think what was, what was tricky, I mean the sort of good news, bad news for us was that, you know, we were coming into a neighborhood that was really used to supporting the bookstore. And because of all of my connections, like, we had a lot of attention. A lot. And so There's a little jealousy, I have to say, in the bookstore world.

I mean, you know, I knew that, like, I don't think there was a way to avoid that, but like, No, it was to your credit, like, it's like a dream way of starting a bookstore. Yes, but I will say the flip side to that is that, um, We started going a hundred miles an hour, you know, whereas I think that if we had been able to sort of start Out more slowly and sort of build up more slowly.

Yeah, it would have given us time to learn things To learn things sort of without sort of as much pressure whereas the way we did it We were like just running a hundred miles an hour and and so we made a lot of mistakes Just I mean, we just didn't know anything. We didn't know anything. And so I would say it took us a couple of years to really Figure out even what we didn't know.

Yeah, and then it was 2020. Yeah, and Then there were a whole lot of other things we didn't know. Yeah, and

So what helped you learn? Was it just experience? Did you go through the, um, you know, ABA or trade organizations or NABA or the reps? The reps are incredible. I always say I learned book selling from the reps. Yeah, I mean our reps are fabulous and have always been so helpful to us. The publishers have always been extremely helpful to us.

Um, Winter Institute, I love, I love. Such a resource. I think I've missed one or two. I mean, you know, because we can't obviously, we have small children, we can't both go all the time. Um, but. We always get a lot there. Um, I don't know. I've read a lot of business books, which I never thought. Really? Oh, I didn't.

I mean, I should have read more accounting books. Yeah. But, um, but I would say, I would say the thing that we learned from the most though is just making mistakes, you know, and, and having people call us on the mistakes and say, Hey, you know. You did this this way, this, this is an author and being like, oh wow.

Right? And um, but it's a forgiving community. I mean, your readers are forgiving 'cause they want you there. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And the publishers need you there. So, and the authors. So you also live in a very author rich community. Mm-Hmm. Right. Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. That's like, yeah. Yeah, you draw on local talent as well.

Yeah, for sure. Um, I mean the thing that really helped us the most was that we finally, after a couple of years, we started to build actual structure for the staff. Oh, what an original concept. It was original to us, let me tell ya. It was, I mean, it is, it is, it is. Night and day. Yeah. Night and day. Yeah, you know, and that we just didn't know.

We didn't know that. So 2020 threw you for a loop, but how many years later you opened up a second store?

Don't cry, you should be so proud. Yeah, I mean, so the second store, our children go to school in Brooklyn Heights and there hasn't been, there hasn't been a bookstore. In Brooklyn Heights for decades. Yeah. When I went to school, I went to high school in Brooklyn Heights and there was a Walden Books there, still on Montague Street, and there was um, I think only one used bookstore still on Montague.

There were, there had been several more. There had been several bookstores. There was a children's bookstore. Yeah. There were, there were tons. Yeah. In the 80s. Yeah. But by the mid 90s Which is sort of when I came to the neighborhood, there, there was the Walden Books and, and one used bookstore. And so, and I think the Walden Books closed probably before the year 2000.

I mean, if I I think so, yeah. I'm pretty sure. I left Brooklyn in 90s, so Yeah, I, so I I don't know what happened during It closed at some point in the 90s, and So, the neighborhood had been asking us to do it since the second we opened the store on Smith Street. Oh, interesting. I mean, they were asking for it.

And then, um, we started to get some phone calls. I started to get some phone calls from people who were thinking about opening a bookstore Yep. In the neighborhood. And, my husband just was like, I can't, I can't walk our kids to school and pass another bookstore.

Especially when people are asking you to come. Yeah, and so we, we, we spent a lot, we looked at a lot of spaces. Were there a lot of spaces available? So many, so many. The rents have just The rents are I mean, I don't want to, like, cause all of your listeners to drop dead at these numbers, so I won't tell you the numbers, but I will tell you that we pay twice as much money.

Twice as much money in Brooklyn Heights as we do on Smith Street. Twice as much money. For the same amount of space. Wow. so we, we weren't gonna do it until we, unless we found a really good space. Right. And then we found a really good space. I know, I haven't seen the new store yet. It's, it's terrific.

It's terrific. it's right next to the first ever Haagen Dazs. Ice cream shop, not to brag, but the first, there's a plaque outside. I still remember going to that one. Um, so yeah, it's right next to an ice cream store and it's two blocks away from our kids school. And, and we walk past it every single day to and from school.

And so, you know, it, it has made our, I would say it has certainly made our life more complicated. You know, in that there are two of them now, and so our staff is significantly bigger. Um, And do you, do you switch staff, or do they have dedicated staff for each store? Almost, almost everyone goes, works in both stores.

Almost everyone. There are a couple of people who really dislike one store or the other, and so prefer to work at just one. Um, But yeah, I mean, we'll see. I don't know. I don't know if that'll last forever, you know, or if someday we will decide that it's much more efficient, you know, to have two separate staffs.

Right. I don't know. No, there is a lot to be said for,working with your staff when you have two stores and making them happy. That was Yeah. What we found the hardest was the whole flow was different. Especially because we divided up the kids store from the adults store. So all of a sudden you realize, oh, wait a minute.

Saturday mornings is slammed with kids, but the afternoon is quiet. Whereas the adults store, is like crickets in the morning and then 12 newt on the dot. That's when everyone comes in. So it's like, well, okay, we've got to rethink our staffing and all that. So there, there is a lot of growth in that. Yeah.

But, but I, I, I can tell you for sure. I mean, I will knock on my own forehead, not to jinx myself, but we are the most organized we've ever been. Like our, our staff is terrific. They are smart. They are engaged. They are, they're terrific. Uh, you know, and our, I would say our big problem as a bookstore is that because we're in the city, people often leave us to go work in publishing.

But, you know. Yeah. I mean, what I found, and I don't know if it's just because we're in the suburbs or what, but a lot of people look at books selling as a through path. And, um, so that was hard, but you know, when you hire young people, It's like you wish for them to, you know, grow and move forward and yeah, so it's, it's like, but yes, you do, you do a lot of training for the publishing industry.

Exactly, we do a lot of training for the publishing industry and, and we've gotten good at saying goodbye to people we love, you know? It's very hard. Yeah. I don't, I don't say goodbye. Yeah. I say see you later. Yes, but like that's something that we've gotten so much better at, you know, whereas like in the first.

Couple of years like when someone left I was like, oh my god, what have we done? You know, but but I'm like, oh Yeah, I know and then you mourn the loss of their specialties Yeah, but then there's room for new people to come in or even people on staff to grow their their Special brand. So I always love that.

What are you? What do you mostly do? Do you mostly do the buying? Are you on the floor? I do the buying. I do most of the adult buying, not all of it. I have been slowly over the years de accessioning some of my lists to um, to our general manager who's very, very good at it. Oh great. Um, yeah, that's, that, that's my like primary job.

And then at the store I'm always in the events and marketing meetings, which is once a week. And Um, yeah, I mean, I would say I'm, I am involved in the buying and in the marketing, really. And then, I mean, our events director, you know, like if, mostly she's like, Do you have so and so's email? And I say yes, and then I give it to her.

Like that's, that's my job, is to be a Rolodex a little bit. That's great. Yeah. Um, so the, the tone, the vibe that you guys have set up in Books Are Magic, What is it and where did it come from? And did you plan it? Did it organically grow or? You know, it's so funny. Like, I mean, if I could plan anything, Margo, if I could plan anything, I don't even know what I could do in this world.

Because. You could write. That's always your, yeah. I just mean, like, I, no, we, we never, like people, when we painted this. The mural on the side of our store, it was just because there was a mural there. When we rented it, there was a mural of, uh, of like a guy on a motorcycle. Okay. Because the, the space that we're in had previously been an Italian clothing store that, um, had a decorative motorcycle in it for some reason.

Um, I don't know why. Their icon, okay. But, so we were like, can we paint over that? So that was the whole, like, we just wanted to paint over the motorcycle that was there for no reason. And, if we'd thought about it a little bit more, we would have made it better. A little bit smaller because now when, when someone is standing in the middle taking a picture, which like we, they all do, they all do, but we didn't, we never thought of it.

Like we didn't think of it. We would have made it smaller because now you kind of have to stand in the middle of the street to like properly get the whole thing. I know. And it's, it's iconic. Your, your mural, every author, every visitor wants their photo. Every day. You know, we take pictures in front of it every day, but.

Um, but things like that. No, we didn't plan anything. We're just lucky morons. It's from your heart, which is what makes it so Yes, we are loving morons. And, um, yeah, and in terms of the voice and the, the brand, you know, like, I mean, Mike designs everything. Right. And so it all looks great. Yep. And I'm like the, um Does he do the book displays also?

Yep. No, no. So those are more for the booksellers. Yeah. Okay. Um, but just like in terms of like, you know, all our merchandise, all of our stuff, great March, sorry. Yeah. I, the podcast, you can't see, I have two books, our magic tote bags right next to us here. Um, but I mean, we always knew that that was going to be part of our, you know, thing.

Right. Um, just cause that was really the only thing we had experience with. It was like making stuff. Oh, that's interesting. Because we worked for a long time. One of my jobs before I worked at the bookstore and before I published any books was working as a personal assistant to this man named Stephen Merritt who's in a band called the Magnetic Fields.

Huh. And every time they went on tour for like 10 years Starting in 2002, until 2012, we went on tour with them and Mike would help them make all the merch and we would sell it at the concerts and we got more experience doing that. Like that was the experience. Wait a minute. You did that as an independent, like as your business or as part of the band?

Yeah, like I worked for him. For Stephen as his personal assistant, but like yeah, we they were just like somebody has to do this Emma do you want to do this? I was like, okay fine And then I went and I did it once by myself and I was terrible at it number one and number two I was like guys, can we just have Mike come and do this because he'll be better at it than I am and they were like sure and So then he did all the work, and was much better at like driving things or carrying things or whatever, and I was good at talking to people.

Yeah, and So we were a good team. I think that's, my hat is off to you. I mean, to have a husband and wife working together and running my hats off to you, but it's obviously you've each are bringing different skills.

And so therefore, I would say that like the only time that that really felt like a big problem. I mean, it's occasionally a problem, you know, where you're like, you can't complain to me about your boss because your boss is my husband or whatever that kind of thing. Um, but really the pandemic, like the pandemic was the only time where I was really like, God damn, I wish that the person who I was married to was not also in charge of our business, because then I wouldn't have had to be alone with our children for 12 hours every day while he was shipping out books or whatever.

Well, because we became warehouses then. Yeah. Wow. So as you say, like running a bookstore takes 150 percent of your time and then your young family, their needs. But how do you do the writing?

Like how do you pull back? It's hard. It's hard. And I'm also like horribly addicted to, you know, my email and Instagram and my, what, you know, like all of that stuff. Um,I mean, I have zero self discipline when it comes to lots of things such as, I don't know, chocolate or rosé.

But when it comes to work, I've always been really good about getting my work done. And so the way it works now, like as I, you know, there, there have been different periods where I've been in the store more or less, But like right now, I am deep in edits for a novel, and so I am on, you know, I am at the store, available one day a week, and those are the days that I have my meetings, I try to schedule all of my buying meetings on that day, and other than that, between the school hours.

Yep. I am chained to my desk. Wow. That's a, that is very disciplined. And no, and I applaud you because Yeah, that's great. But when you have an established store and you have like, great booksellers. So there's no need for you to be there on a day to day basis. And I mean, it's, you know, it's, it's sad because I miss it.

Like it's, whenever I'm in the store, I'm like, I love this place, you know? I always say it's my happy place When people say aren't you supposed to be retired? I'm like yeah, but it's like what am I gonna do? It's like I want to be here. I want to see people I want to feel the new books coming out. I mean, it's like it's it's it's my World.

Yeah, you know is the bookstore. Like I mean like it's you know, the bookstore It's what I talk about, it's what I think of, like the books and, you know, who's selling and what's selling and who's coming in and who just happened, who's just shopping and, you know. So growing up as a daughter of a writer must have also like really informed your path.

Yeah. I mean, I certainly, I knew our local bookstores and libraries extremely well. and I mean, it really is how I grew up. That Yeah. That that books were the sort of, I mean, I don't even wanna say the word currency, but it,oh, it was the thing that we talked about. It was the thing that we cared about.

Yeah. You know, not just like adult novels or like, you know, other novelists would be around. Um, although that was very much how I grew up. Was at like these, you know, like big dinner parties filled with amazing writers and editors and, um, publishers. And, but also like my mom, for most of my life ran this early childhood literacy program.

Wow. And so our house was also always full of picture books. Yeah. And picture book makers. Yes. And so, I don't know, like I just, I feel so lucky and that that was my world and that it still is. Yeah. The world that I live in is my world. I mean, you know, it's not the eighties, but like, but like really the world that I have built with my family is, is not dissimilar to the world that I grew up in.

And, and I love that. What a testimony to your parents. Do you, do you ever, I mean, obviously you mine your personal life for your books. Um, um, And, uh, this time tomorrow is A lot about your relationship with your dad. Um, but do you, have you ever thought of a strict memoir? No, you know Especially, especially in, in the vein of how you were brought up and all?

I don't know. right now, I'm on my way here. I've been listening to Griffin Dunn's memoir. Yes, yes. The Friday Afternoon Club It's Delicious. Wow. It is. I, I, it, I didn't start listening right away because I was like, is this just, is it just going to be about Joan Didion, like, is it, cause she's on the cover, I mean, you know, it's like a family photograph on the cover and he's there and he's a teenager and Joan Didion is there and, um, you know, and his parents, whatever, and I was just, I was feeling some, like, Joan Didion fatigue.

Yeah. Um, but then I started, so many friends of mine have read it and so I have been listening and he reads it of course and it is just like my favorite kind of memoir because it's, it's It's not just about Joe Didion, it's about, it's about growing up in Hollywood with these sort of, like, social, climby parents, who had their own problems, and, you know, Joe Didion and John Gregory Dunne are his is Aunt Knuckle, so there's like, that scene, and then moving to New York, and his best friends, and Carrie Fisher, and like, it's just, it's, it's, It's incredible, it's incredible and I love it and I just, I don't think I could do it.

I don't think I could do it. I think I'm too private, actually. That's, yeah. And It also, it sounds dishy, which makes it really what you want to read, but I don't see you as a dishy person. Yeah, I think, I mean, who knows, maybe when I'm, Sixty? I don't know, maybe. When you have, yeah, when you have a different perspective.

Yeah, maybe. It's possible. I wouldn't say never. Never say never. So with raising your sons and like revisiting your old favorites, and especially I didn't realize your mom had this experience, and all these new books coming out, has that changed your perspective on children's books? I mean, I just think, I think that, You know, there are a lot of people who come into my store, I'm sure they come into your store too, and they complain about the graphic novels.

And they say, what? It's not real reading. It's not real books. It's not real books. And I just think, how incredible, how lucky, for These kids, that there's this whole new format that they love. But I also say to the parents, like you have to think that it is amazing that in this one little cell, that this complex thought and ideas and actions are, are like portrayed here.

And that's where the kid's imagination can play into. So I say, give your kids a lot of credit for, for. Yeah, for expanding, for thinking about what they're reading. Yeah, and I mean, I loved comic books when I was a kid. Like Archie and Veronica, Katie Keene, the fashion model comics. I loved those. But I also read some like, in retrospect, like, I mean they weren't like dirty comics, but like there were like Like kind of sexy, kind of sexy comics.

What comics were those? Did I miss that? Cause I went to like the comic book store, you know, like yeah, right that which doesn't exist anymore in my neighborhood. We have one We have a wonderful one at Eastside Mags and LeClaire. So we're thrilled. Oh, I love comic book stores. Um, That's funny. I think that like that You I don't know.

So, to answer your question, like, I love the graphic novels that exist today. Like, Jason Reynolds Stunt Boy, you know? Or Raina Telgemeier, or like, I mean, my friend Ruth Chan had a graphic memoir that came out this week called Uprooted. Yes. That I just love so much. And I just think, You cannot read any of those books and say that it is less than to any degree.

But did you come to this through your sons and watching them read? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean I, I will say, when I was working at Book Court I remember a certain novelist who is one of my very favorite novelists. favorite novelists. I will not name her here. Okay. But she was expressing disappointment that her children were reading graphic novels.

This was way before I had kids and I was like, Lady, what are you talking about? Yeah. So it was before I had kids but and she may have changed her mind. We'll see. I don't know. No, but initially, well initially also the ones that came out were, you know, Captain Underpants. They were all like kind of poopy and naughty.

Right. There are ones that are less. That's profound. But they get the kids laughing and wanting to read it and the whole act of sitting down with a book becomes part of their language. Absolutely. No snobs. No snobs allowed. I want to put a sign up at Books Are Magic that says no snobs allowed. I know.

 I feel like we went from when we started in. 96, it was still a transitional period where bookstores, I remember we, not that we had the Dewey Decimal System, but like you had, you had a section for absolutely everything in case someone came in and asked, and we had all the reference books that, that, Like we don't need anymore.

Nobody asks for them. So, so we had a transition from having to represent everything to realizing, okay, we can decide what, what we think our readers are interested in and what, what we like. And by then you get to know who your people are and what books you should bring in for them. 

 And I remember one year we just, when we realized that, wow, we are committing to this, the books that we pulled to return, it was like, it was, it was very sad, but, but again, to survive as a business, you know, you have to have on the shelves what people are going to buy.

Yeah. Yeah. so you guys are very committed to events and to the authors. is it because of your experience of being an author? Yeah, I guess so. I guess so. I mean, I think that it's, you know, it's such a huge part of, you know, Business model, you know, I mean, it's just like that's and it was from the get go Yeah, I mean, I think we always understood that like, you know, There are a lot of bookstores in Brooklyn Yeah, and with a few exceptions We all sell the same things, you know, likeWe all sell the same books. Yeah for the same amount of money. You know what I mean? Right? So, so the events were important to be like, no, come here, come here, come to this one because we have so and so and you can get your book signed.

And, um, yeah, so it was always, it was always sort of part of how we imagined the success of the store. Yeah. And it still is. I mean, certainly. That was like a really, you can tell it's a really important part of what you guys do. We started. Um, Devoting time to, um, author events on a much smaller scale, obviously.

Um, but because I always figured back then, when we started, that if you can't celebrate in your own hometown, that was the days when, you know, Barnes Noble would have the big author events. And, um, If our people were not on that level, they wouldn't get that. So I said, well, of course we're going to celebrate here.

And then we had, we had just like 10 authors in town. Now we have, we have over a hundred. It's, it's like this insane community. And like the entire staff of the New York Times, I think. Yes, that as well. And all the publishing professionals. No, it makes for a really. Vibrant, uh, programming now that we have.

Kathryn and I sat down to do our fall programming and we're like, we have three to four events every single week in September and October, which you're used to. It's exhausting though. It's exhausting. It is. And you want to give everything you've got. The problem is also, well we have a smaller audience than you guys in Brooklyn, but you want to give each author and each event the same amount of attention and the same amount of marketing 

And sometimes it gets a little lost if you have a full schedule. Yeah, it's hard. It's hard. so when you started In 2017, Brooklyn had already exploded as like the independent bookstore mecca, right? Yeah, sure. I mean, there were tons. Yeah. And now there are even more. Yeah, it's true.

There are more all the time. Yeah, it's like shelf awareness. Like, ooh, another Brooklyn bookstore. Um, does that like figure into your planning or your thoughts or anything? Or do you feel secure where you guys are? In theory, yes. You know, does it make me nervous when, like, like if a big bookstore were to open a few blocks away from us, would that make me really nervous?

Yes. Because, you know, the truth is that, I would say probably 80 percent of our customers also shop at the other independent bookstores. Yeah, they're devoted indie people. So it's not that I think that like No one would come anymore. Right. But it is true that you know, we have some authors who Who like, I would say, we thought of as sort of like our authors who maybe it, maybe they move closer to another bookstore or something like that and then they sort of move to that bookstore.

You know, that happens and it's like you can't get mad at someone for saying that. Natural transitions. Um, but it, but it is funny to be, You know in a small business where you're like, oh that actually really does affect us Yeah, you know like if if an author does that like a pre order campaign with us that's like a You know and they and they publish regularly and they sell hundreds of books or whatever Yeah, and then they take that somewhere else.

That's that that's serious, you know, we notice that yeah And I feel like sometimes people Sort of don't understand how, like, how much that actually really does affect independent bookstores. Like, that it's not So, you don't feel like your biggest competition is the online behemoth? Oh, no. Interesting. I mean, if people are buying books from Amazon, they're not my people.

You know what I mean? Like, I just think that we've lost it. Good luck with your life, you have nothing to do with me. That's a good mantra, we'll try that. Yeah, like, I, yeah, I don't, I honestly, I don't think about Amazon. Well, you have more independent competition than we do here. We have, you know, a handful of really great bookstores around us.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, but I want to say that like, You know, I am friendly with several of the other independent bookstore owners in Brooklyn. Not everyone, but like, but with enough where I feel like if I, if we're having a problem or there's something going on, I can and I do turn to them and say, you know.

All the time. And it actually, it makes, it always makes me feel better to be part of that community. And to be able to walk into someone else's bookstore and be like, Can we talk about it? You know? Or call them on the phone. Like, it's, it is, it is reassuring always. Yeah. Cause I found, I mean, I always feel like as a bookseller, you work in isolation.

Um, obviously you have your own booksellers, but we're so focused on the little world we've built in our four walls. And, I mean, which is why the conferences are so important, but to be able to, to go to someone who, Has similar circumstances, who's in the neighborhood, who, like, it's always good to have that touchstone and say, what, is this me?

Yeah. Yeah. Or like, how are you handling this, like, and I mean, often I feel better just having those conversations, you know, like even though the conversations in themselves haven't solved whatever problem I was, you know, whatever thing I was worried about, just having those conversations. Yeah. Stephanie Valdez who owns Community, or Christine who owns Word, or like, um, you know the folks at Greenlight.

I mean, just like, I have so many people to go to and that always makes me feel better. Yeah. It is an amazing community, I think, in general. Um, how supportive the independent bookstores are of each other. Yeah. And. So, thankfully it's not a cutthroat business in that respect. And, uh, we can build our own special worlds.

And, uh, so that kind of brings us to our personal lives. And what are you reading? As though you have time to read anything. Oh, I have time. I have time. Yeah. Um. Well, so I mentioned I've been listening to Griffin Dunn's memoir, um, I just had the great honor and pleasure of, interviewing Rachel Kushner about her new book, Creation Lake, at the Brooklyn Public Library, and, man, like, I think she's the smartest woman I've ever talked to.

She's amazing. And I was so nervous. I was so nervous. Because? Well, because her book is all about, like, I mean, it's a fun book. It's a fun book. Yeah, yeah, but But it's also about, like, these, like, you know, French activists who are, like, you know, planning a sort of environmental act. Wow. Activism Event to criticize the government and there are all these French Philosophers mentioned I'm like Are these real?

Are these fictional? I don't know. Did you have to do some research? I did so much research. But what was amazing about her what is amazing about her is that even though she's the smartest person You'll talk to yeah, she is so welcoming and So not a snob, that like, we had, we had, we had a fabulous conversation.

Yeah. And that book is terrific. And today it was long listed for the National Book Award, so. Great. That's good. That's very exciting. Um, and, I mean, this summer, you know, it was a funny reading summer for me. Yeah. Because I read two of my father's books. So Penguin Random House, They just started these reissues for my dad's books.

They're doing, I can't even tell you how many, I think there are like six or seven total that they're doing over the next couple of years. Um, and the first one came out this summer, Shadowland. It was published in 1980. And I hadn't read it since the early 90s, I would say, which is when I started reading his books.

And it is so much fun. It is so much fun. And it's And was it a different read? Oh, completely. For you to read it now? He wrote it when he was younger than I am now. He was in his mid thirties. It was published the same year that I was born. Wow. And, so it's, and a lot of the, it's, it's about um, these two boys at a prep school.

Who then go to Vermont to stay with one of their uncles for the summer. Um, and the uncle is like, kind of like an evil magician. And, so it's all about these boys and magic and in the woods. And, it's um, it's like also all about how much he hated the prep school that he went to in Milwaukee. And he, spoiler alert, he, um, sets the whole thing on fire.

Like he sets the building on fire. And I'm like, that's so funny, dad. That's so funny. That's how you resolve those issues. Yeah, yeah. And then the, the other book of his that I read this summer was the book that he was working on when he died, which was Unfinished, you know, I mean, he stopped, he stopped working on it a couple of months before he died Because he knew that he wasn't gonna be able to and I think he just sort of wanted to take the pressure off of himself But I mean he was a man who like never ever took a vacation I mean talk about me working a lot like yeah, I mean he had no other responsibilities to be clear to be very clear but Every family vacation we ever went on, you know, we'd be sitting by the pool at Club Med or whatever, and he would be writing.

Um, but, so I read this book that he was working on, and it was so delightful. So delightful. And I just felt so happy to be with him in those pages. Are you going to bring it forth to the world? It's going to be published by a small press. Who's gonna finish it though? No one's finishing it. Oh, okay. Yeah, no, no, no.

It's unfinished. It's unfinished. Which is what he wanted. We talked about it. Wow. We talked about having someone else finish it. Yeah. Whether it was me or someone else. And he decided that he didn't want that. Interesting. Um, which is good, honestly. Yeah. Like, I mean, I would have been terrible at it.

I would have been terrible at it. Well, it would have been hard. I mean, like in his books, like, especially his later books, like, there's a lot of like torture and murder and serial killers. It's not your Bailey week. It's not really my bag. When I wrote, when I wrote Laura Lamont, my first novel, you know, Laura Lamont covers like decades and decades of this woman's life.

And I, when I finished, or at some point I was like, Dad, you'd be so proud of me. I'm just like killing so many characters. And he said, Emma. Are you killing them or are they just dying? Oh my god. And I was like, oh, they're, they're just dying. They're just dying. I mean, I'm killing them because they're dying.

Yeah. No, but I have yet, I have yet to have a murder. Okay. In one of my books. So maybe, maybe someday. Well, I, this summer read All The Colors of the Dark by Chris Whitaker. Oh yeah, how was it? You know, it was great. I, I mean, I wanted, you know, sort of a murder mystery and everything. But what I loved about the way he wrote about it, he, he wouldn't, the chapters were short.

Which is great for summer reading. But he didn't, it's, He didn't like finish the action. He kind of left you hanging so that you had to figure it out. It was a very interesting way of writing. So I enjoyed that. And then I read, um, Kathryn Newman's Sandwich. As Lee Boudreau said, this should be the summer I turn 50 because we had all these great, you know, women of a certain age transition books.

And then the next one I'm going to start is The Barn by Wright Thompson, which is about the Emmett Till murder, but the full background of Mississippi at the time. So I'm really looking forward to that. Yeah, that book sounds so good. Yeah. I am. Alright, well if you like, I won't tell you too much about the book that I'm nearly done with because it's not going to be out for so long, but, but I will tell you that it is a woman at 50, life transition.

But that's, that is, that's what selling, that's what people need and that's what you're so good at is, as I said, like just taking your own experiences, women's life experiences and putting them to words. So I am really looking forward to that and that is not going to be like probably for two years you think?

Well, I don't, yeah, I don't have a pub date yet. I think it'll be spring of 26, like, like early. Okay, so actually, February. Yeah, actually relatively soon in the publishing, in publishing parlance. I've got a lot of notes to get through from my very, very good editor. That's great. I'm working on it. Well, we, we're so thrilled that you took the time out of your insanely busy schedule to come out here today and talk with me.

My pleasure. I really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Thank you, Emma. 

Thank you, Emma and Margo. And Emma, we truly appreciate that you came out to record with us and sign books and make a band book video for us in Montclair.

And listeners, we've got signed stock of Emma's books in store, and you can find all the books they've talked about in our show notes and at watchungbooksellers. com. Here are a few of our many upcoming events. September 24th, we are hosting Honor Moore and Clara Bingham to discuss Honor's memoir, A Termination, alongside Clare's oral history of feminist icons, The Movement.

Proceeds from ticket sales are going to Planned Parenthood, so come out and enjoy this talk. Tomorrow, Wednesday, the 25th, the Montclair Literary Festival and Montclair Public Library host Nicholas Kristof, discussing his memoir, Chasing Hope. Thursday, September 26th, we've got Shirley Jackson award winning author Sophie White, with our former guest Laura Sims to talk about Sophie's truly creepy book, Where I End.

I am reading this currently and it is spooky and perfect for Halloween season, so come on out and enjoy that. Next week on Tuesday, October 1st, we've got two events. A meet and greet with local author Nicole Bokat, celebrating her novel, Will Indian Fire.

And then following, we have Jason Lipschutz, author of It Starts With One, a comprehensive biography of the band Linkin Park. And kids story time, so be sure to check them out in our newsletter, show notes, or at watchungbooksellers. com.